Episode 17: The Emotional Side of Money: How Financial Therapy Helps You Build a Healthier Relationship with Wealth
Does every money conversation in your house end in a fight? Do you leave financial meetings feeling good, then go home and do nothing?
The problem might not be your finances. It might be your relationship with them.
Erika Wasserman, founder of Your Financial Therapist and one of a small number of certified financial therapists in the country, breaks down what financial therapy actually is and why it matters. She explores how childhood money stories shape adult behavior, how shame keeps people stuck, and how couples, individuals, and professionals can start having the conversations that lead to real change.
Listen in as Erika examines the emotional architecture behind money decisions, offering practical tools and frameworks that help listeners move from avoidance and shame to awareness, action, and lasting financial confidence.
What You’ll Learn:
What financial therapy is and how it differs from traditional financial planning.
How childhood money stories become patterns that shape financial behavior.
How the emotional side of money shows up at work, in negotiations, and elsewhere.
Why 90% of financial decisions are emotional (and what to do about it).
The Money Mindset Method: a five-step framework for productive money conversations.
How to tell if you are a "how" or a "wow" person and why it changes how you plan.
Ideas Worth Sharing:
“90% of financial decisions are emotional, 10% are logical.” - Erika Wasserman
"Every single person has made a financial mistake. Let that shame go, and let's start thinking about how you build the confidence to make better decisions." - Erika Wasserman
"A plan doesn't fail; people fail. And so we need the people involved to keep you on track, to keep the conversation going, and to give you those check-ins." - Erika Wasserman
Resources:
Erika Wasserman: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook | YouTube | Instagram
Conversations with Your Financial Therapist by Erika Wasserman
About Our Guest:
Erika Wasserman is the founder of Your Financial Therapist and one of a small number of certified financial therapists in the United States. After two decades in consulting, she built her practice around a single truth: money is never just math. It is mindset, story, and behavior. She works with individuals, couples, and global organizations, and is the author of Conversations with Your Financial Therapist, published by Wiley and endorsed by Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran.
Connect with Us:
If you're ready to stop avoiding your finances and start building the future you deserve, schedule a free call with me at pelicanfinancialplanning.com and let’s create your personalized financial plan together.
And if you want ongoing guidance, clarity, and confidence as you grow your wealth, subscribe to our newsletter for financial insights delivered right to your inbox.
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Read the Transcript:
Erika Wasserman: 90% of financial decisions are emotional, 10% are logical. So you leave that meeting, and we're like, "Okay, we're gonna start saving for retirement. We're gonna start the wedding fund. We're gonna do all these things." That's logically what makes sense, but emotionally, you're not ready.
Welcome to The Wealth Development Studio. I'm your host, Genevieve George, Senior Financial Advisor and Founder of Pelican Financial Planning & Wealth. Our goal for this episode is to provide clarity about today's financial topic, inspire you to be brave with your questions, and gain confidence in your financial future. So take a deep breath, grab your favorite cup of coffee, and step into the studio. Your dose of financial empowerment begins now.
Genevieve George: Today's guest is Erika Wasserman, founder of Your Financial Therapist and one of a small number of certified financial therapists, helping people understand that money is never just about numbers. It's about emotions, relationships, and the stories we carry about money from childhood into adulthood. Erika works with individuals, couples, and organizations to help them transform their relationship with money, reduce financial stress, and have the conversation most people avoid.
She's also a speaker and an author whose work focuses on the emotional side of wealth, the side many financial professionals rarely talk about, but almost everyone experiences. Erika, I'm so glad to have you here.
Erika Wasserman: Yeah, I'm looking forward to our conversation. Thanks for having me.
Genevieve George: Yes, yes, me too. For someone hearing the term financial therapist for the first time, how do you explain what that means and what you do?
Erika Wasserman: Yes, so I get that question a lot. I always say when I go to like a cocktail party, you know, and people ask me, what do you do? And I say, I'm a financial therapist. They give me the puppy dog look, right? The head tail is like, what?
But when you think about it, it's the emotional side of money. It's the sleepless nights. It's the conversations around the kitchen table that you when you're a kid, we're hearing your parents talk about money. It's the emotions that come into the conversations with your boss or planning a wedding. And we're lucky in life that people talk to us about investing, spending plans, budgets. But does anybody actually talk to you about how you feel about money?
Genevieve George: Yeah, yeah, probably not. There's definitely missing piece there. I know that's something that I think the piece, the time it comes up the most for me is when I'm talking to somebody about their feelings is really their feelings around debt. When they are talking to me and as a financial planner, I'm coming with them. The question is always, should we be paying down our mortgage quicker? And it depends on the financial situation and the interest rates and all of that. But I'm coming to them and saying, okay, based on the numbers, this is what I think the answer would be.
But the other side of that is the emotional side of it. Because if you're very debt adverse, then it doesn't matter what I have said about the numbers. It matters how you feel about it. So that's probably the piece where we talk about the feelings around it the most. But I think there's so much more there that can be unpacked across their entire financial plan. Not just that. That's just the piece that came to mind first.
Erika Wasserman: And what jumped off me is I'm working with a client who's like, “I'm bad at money, right?” That was what she said to me in our early 50s, grown kids. “I'm just bad with money.” Always have been, kind of always will be kind of mindset. And as we started talking, her house has paid off and she was able to pay off her mom's house.
Genevieve George: Yeah, so she's not bad with money. She just doesn't like to talk about it.
Erika Wasserman: Right, and she's still like suspended. As we started digging through conversations, it was in childhood, her dad was an entrepreneur and lost their home twice. And when she was seven and when she was like 14, so they were very traumatic years for her as a child. And so for her to have the safety of a home paid off was the utmost priority. She didn't want to have that feeling they built their home from the ground up that that house was ever going to leave. And so she's bad with money and all these other aspects, but the home was her safe place. And that's where the emotional side of money comes in really strong.
But we don't sit and analyze these things. And really, I'm like, you're better off than a lot of people because your mortgage is paid off. You don't have a mortgage and you're in your 50s. How wonderful is that? Let's celebrate. And she wouldn't allow herself to celebrate those feelings because there was so much shame around so many of her other decisions that she was making.
And that's what I see a lot is that people are embarrassed, they have shame around financial mistakes. And what I want to normalize is every single person has made a financial mistake.
Genevieve George: Yes, yes, including myself.
Erika Wasserman: Every single person. Let me repeat that.
Yes! Yes! Including Warren Buffett! Like, every single person has made a financial mistake. So let that shame go, and like, let's start thinking about how do you build the confidence to make better decisions.
Genevieve George: And I've run into that a little bit on the shame side. That resonates with me because as I'm talking with people and particularly women and not to say that men don't have shame around this, but I think the shame sort of holds them back from taking that step forward as well. And I want to help with that so much because whatever got you there, whatever the story is, we still need to take a look at everything so that we can make the plan for where you want to go. But that shame really holds people back, I think, from taking that next step. So how do you address that with people that you're working with?
Erika Wasserman: Yeah, and so they come in and they sit with you or you go and you sit with your advisors if you're listening, and you're like feeling good in that meeting, you have a plan in place and then you go home, and that little bubble gets popped somehow and then like the air just deflates over the next few days and no action is taken.
No action is an action.
And so what happens is you start second-guessing yourself. Those voices that live rent-free in your head are starting to tell you things not to trust, not to do this, whatever you have on loop. We all have different stories, but those stories, those what-ifs are taking over the action that needs to come into play.
And so when I talk to people about AI and AI investing, those are great, right? Great tools, but they're tools. Until we get the people aspect involved, a plan doesn't fail, people fail. And so we need the people involved to keep you on track, to keep the conversation going, and to give you those check-ins.
I was about to say, so Harvard did a study years ago that 90% of financial decisions are emotional. 10% are logical. So you leave that meeting and we're like, “Okay, we're gonna start saving for retirement, we're gonna start the wedding fund, we're gonna do all these things.” That's logically what makes sense. But emotionally, you're not ready, you don't have that $5,000, whatever that pickup is that you've told yourself that's holding you back is holding you back.
Genevieve George: Yeah. And then oftentimes those are stories that we've put on ourselves, right? You shared your story about your client who lost her home as a child, but sometimes it's not as drastic, right?
But it is something that we've just carried around that has impacted how we approach that next step or don't take that inaction. What are some of those other sort of stories or boundaries that have been put on people that kind of hold them back that you have to sort of break through with your clients?
Erika Wasserman: I have another client who's in her mid 60s, let's say, late 60s. I won't give her age away, but should be retired, could be retired, financially could be retired. Her mom told her when she was a kid that she'll never be able to afford herself.
Yep. And so she's still working. She's still hustling. She enjoys it. But why the need is there? Because the messaging that's been programmed in her.
Genevieve George: Yeah. Yeah. And so when you're working with someone like that, how are you helping to get them to embrace the change in mindset?
Erika Wasserman: Right, it's understanding what does money mean to you? How is it going to flow in your life? So at different stages, it's gonna flow differently. If you're in your 20s, we're gonna want it to flow towards retirement, the earlier you save, the better.
You're gonna want it to flow into weddings and to maybe some adventures, but if you're in your 70s, it's flowing differently.
Genevieve George: Right. Maybe healthcare.
Erika Wasserman: Healthcare, still some travel, generational planning that you're thinking about for your family. But also, if it's done properly, you actually have some money to enjoy life.
And what does that look like? And everybody is different. For somebody, it's an RV on a farm, simple life. And for somebody else, it’s a cruise around the world. So it's defining what works for you and then assessing the numbers. So for the stage three people that I talk about, this is like not retirement because retirement is like an on-off switch, but like the next phase of life.
It's looking at your finances and realizing that there's going to be a shift. The numbers are going to go down, but they're going down because you've planned it out.
Genevieve George: Yes, because that is the plan. We built it up so they can use it.
Erika Wasserman: And you can sleep at night. Exactly, but so many people are afraid to use it that they don't and they often, you see it, where they're often like, “Well, I'm gonna leave it to my kids, I'm gonna leave it to my kids,” but there's hardship happening and not being discussed.
Genevieve George: Right. I get the question a lot. Right. You say, “I'm a financial planner,” and somebody says like, “I heard I need X dollars to retire.” And like the answer to your point, right. The answer is very much dependent upon what their goal is. If they're going to be the person that enjoys just a simple, relaxed lifestyle versus the person that's going to take extravagant trips or eat out every meal or whatever the case may be.
So it really is so dependent upon what their life is, but they have to like actually take the time to say, "This is what I want it to look like. This is where I'm at, and this is where I want to be. And we got to work there.” But it's so interesting because I think people are just floating around out there with this number in their head that they may or may not achieve. And they're not like really understanding why they're working towards that number or what it looks like.
Erika Wasserman: So here's an activity I want you to do. So your listeners out here, I want you to build a financial vision board. I want you to go old school, know, the flyers in the mail that still come in. You can cut it out. You can go in Canva and create your own, but I want you to see what does it look like.
And I'm working with a couple right now and it's really interesting because what she thought retirement was going to look like and her husband, it looks slightly different, but they never actually just sat and talked about it.
They're like, “We'll travel when we get older.” Well, what's travel? Is travel to the next city over? Is travel to,across the world? And so when she did the financial vision board, she then had a talking point to share, does this vision match your vision? Then they were able to sit down and come up with some numbers.
Well, this vision, what we want to build in the backyard and the vacation we want to take and the healthcare that we want to provide at a certain age is going to be X amount of dollars. And then they were able to go back to their advisor and be like, do we have enough? And where are the gaps? Yeah.
Genevieve George: Right. Yes. If we don't, what do we do? What are the levers that we need to adjust?
Erika Wasserman: Yeah, but until you know what you're working for, it's like I want to get a promotion. You can't walk into your boss and just say, “I want to get a promotion.” It's not going to look like what you want it to look like. It's not going to match your skill sets or the pay you expected.
The same is when you say, “I want to retire.” You really need to get a clear definition of what that looks like. It might not be exact. In fact, it probably won't be exact. But at least you have that vision that you're going for.
Genevieve George: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So yeah, I like the activity of making a vision board. Even if it's in my mind, even if it's just a list, although I love to craft, but even if it's just a list of what you want that to look like.
I'm often preaching to people, "You can't you need to know where you are right now.” So that we can make a plan for where you want to be. But the other side of that is you need to know where you want to be.
And so that's a really powerful exercise. I love that and understanding.
Erika Wasserman: And we recently did that exercise with a client. I'm like, let me give a snapshot, right? Sometimes it's very overwhelming to track for several months. Let's just get a snapshot. Let's get a pulse on things. $5,000 a month was missing. Just not accounted for.
And again, miscommunication between the two people and the conversation went back. They had some more conversation. It was more like $2,000 that was not accounted for that probably went to miscellaneous stuff each month. But that's a lot of money for miscellaneous stuff that's not accounted for.
And so awareness came into play. If we want to hit these goals, we need more awareness to move that $2,000 into savings. Most people don't have that luxury of having money floating around. And so taking that minute to look to see where your money's flowing is really important.
Genevieve George: Yeah. Yeah. And knowing that it was somewhat unaccounted for, did create that awareness, right? If we don't put it over here in savings or in a different vehicle, it's going to get spent. Just like it happens in my own checking account.
Erika Wasserman: Because let's talk about tax refunds, right? Tax refunds are gonna start coming back for people. If it stays in your checking account, if you're like most people, myself included, if it's sitting in my checking account, it's found money, right?
Genevieve George: Yep. And then it disappears just like that, just like it was found.
Erika Wasserman: Three months later, I'm like, I have nothing to show for it. If I move that money and give it a purpose, I don't care if I put it in a high yield savings or my investment account or my kids college fund, whatever it is, I know what levers I need to pull if I need to pull it back, but I gave that money a job.
Genevieve George: Yeah. And we made it less accessible. can't just tap it away, which I know you talk about in your book.
Erika Wasserman: Is the tapping. We no longer have cash to see and touch. So it makes it a challenge.
Genevieve George: Now, what are some of those other stories that people carry around that sort of impact how they approach money, how they approach… I think I really like what you said too, because when we talk about money, we think it's personal, but it also affects how you show up in your job and how you negotiate and all of that. I really like that you've addressed that in your book and you addressed that with your clients too.
Erika Wasserman: Yeah, our storytelling is really impactful. I always say in a positive way, just like oftentimes with the storytelling we tell ourselves, strays us away from what the reality is in front of us.
Genevieve George: Absolutely. I said, of the… you've spoken about some of the stories that we tell ourselves that sort of impact how we feel about our money. One of the areas that you addressed in your book and you addressed it a little bit here already is how those stories don't just impact our personal life and our personal finances, but also how we show up at work.
Can you maybe speak to that, how you're working with your clients in the professional sense, not just on the personal level?
Erika Wasserman: Yes, so let's talk about that. How you're showing up in your work.
If you're not making decisions, there's uncertainty that's growing within your environment. If you're a leader, a manager, an entrepreneur, by not making a decision, a financial decision to hire, a financial decision to invest, either way, you're causing delay and potential growth. And what happens is, and I'll use a great analogy, I live in South Florida, I had a roof leak the other day. I mean, it's comical for my kids and I at this point. I forgot how old my roof is.
It's close to 20 years old, right? So every year the roofer comes out for repair. And by habit and stinginess, right? I don't want to invest in a new roof. I keep just patching it. But at a certain point, I just need to put the roof on, right? But my gut is I don't want to spend the money. But every time it rains, I'm looking up in the house waiting for where's the next leak coming.
The emotional toll that it's taking on me is necessarily more than the financial. Here's the interesting thing. I got a new quote for a new roof and the pricing actually went down from like two or three years ago that I looked.
So I'm gonna make the decision to change paths. But I really had to reassess my patterns there. The same is true when I work with like real estate agents. The patterns is to go to the same neighborhoods, the same price points that you're comfortable with because this is what you know it works.
The growth opportunity comes in stepping it up to a higher neighborhood or a bigger value or places where you're uncomfortable. But that's where the growth happens. Somewhere along the way you've been told this is your sweet spot. This is all you can do. Limited messaging. And so we need to flip that limited messaging to growth and there's endless possibilities.
Genevieve George: And in the context of working with people as a financial therapist, and as you're working with people on the stories that they're holding and affecting how they approach their wealth.
One of the emotions that I've had around money in the past is anger. And it was related to the workplace, right? You find out that you could have been making a lot more money and why did I let that happen to myself?
Maybe that's not a normal reaction, but there are so, I think when I say that to you and you had that noise, that seems like maybe that's not the emotion that most people feel, but there is an emotion there that honestly was super hard for me to move fast.
And so how do you help people really address what emotions they're feeling and how to move forward?
Erika Wasserman: And validate them. By the way, you should be angry.
Genevieve George: No, I was super angry.
Erika Wasserman: And here's the thing, and I'll give you another story. Another client that I was working with found out she was getting paid. She did not get a signing bonus. That's what it was.
Two of her male counterparts got $20,000 signing bonuses. She didn't. They're all in the same position. And she went to the boss, and maybe it was like a year or two later when she found out. And she goes, how come they got a bonus and I didn't?
And the boss goes, “They asked. Happened to be too male. They asked.” And often I see this, especially with women, right? Taking up space, not asking for too much. And at the end of the day, we've only been allowed to have financial decision making for the past 50 years. So it's still a skill that we are growing and learning that it is so needed.
I'll give you another statistic.
So single women make up 20% of homeowners right now. Single men make up 10% of homeowners. And the rest is couples, corporations, whatever. Who pays the highest interest rates, mortgage rates?
Genevieve George: Women.
Erika Wasserman: Women do. You know why?
Genevieve George: Because we don't ask to negotiate it down?
Erika Wasserman: Yep, we're not being competitive, right? So oftentimes I'll say, "That's my brother's cousin. That person's going to give me a good read. And I'm not going to be too pushy. It's not a big deal.”
Genevieve George: Or you think it's just is what it is. This is what I've been offered. There is not negotiating power here.
Erika Wasserman: Right, and the reality is everything in life is negotiable. Everything, working with a client now, looking for an apartment, it's negotiable. They need you.
Genevieve George: Yeah, that's so powerful to hear. And that was going to be one of my questions for you is do you see in the individuals and families that you work with, do you see this massive difference between men and women and how the stories that they're carrying around and how they approach their wealth?
Erika Wasserman: Interesting enough, I have more male clients than I thought that I would. And because they don't have a place to go to talk about money and not feel shame and admit their mistakes. And so it's really about normalizing these conversations and having a peer group.
How often do you go out for dinner and talk to people like, “What's your mortgage rate? Who are you using? Right? Well, why not?”
We share, you know, we'll talk about sex, we'll talk about politics, we'll talk about everything else. Things that can make a difference, we're not sharing.
Genevieve George: Yeah, and as somebody whose business is solely based on referrals, I'm going to need you guys to go out and talk about it. That's a different, that's a whole different story.
Erika Wasserman: Yeah, but also not just talk about it once. Right? It's an ongoing conversation. And so like for me, I'm a single mom with three teenage daughters at this point. My dad was my accountability partner, the person I talked to, the person who taught me about money. And when he passed away, my mom lost her financial partner and I lost my accountability partner.
It took me a little while to find the right person who had the time that was invested in me, who I can ask silly questions to, we could bounce ideas off each other, and it turned out to be one of my best friends who was also in a similar situation and didn't have anybody else to talk to and where mindsets and values were similar.
And so like if you don't have that person that you talk to, and by the way, it doesn't necessarily have to be your romantic partner. It could be a coworker at work. It could be a mentor. It could be a family member. It's just find somebody that you feel safe to brainstorm ideas, to have conversations.
We don't know it all. We don't know it all when we go to the gym, right? And so we look up on YouTube, we get a personal trainer, we take a class. Why would you think you're supposed to know everything around money?
Genevieve George: Right. Now in my addition to that is that you should be allowed to know everything about your finances. And what I see is that people, the same shame or fear, they're not asking the questions, right?
They're just taking in whatever data they're being given and they're not feeling brave enough to say, "Hey, I did not understand what you just explained to me. Can you explain it in a different way?”
And so like, I very much try to say whether it is a thousand dollars or millions of dollars, those are your life savings and they are important. And you deserve to know every single aspect of them to the extent that you want to. But like, I think there's a lot of people not asking questions.
So I'm curious your take on that with the people that you're working with, helping them to navigate like their professional relationships.
Erika Wasserman: Yes, you should feel comfortable like you do when you go to the doctor. So if you go to your doctor and look, we've all been to some that rush you through that, you know, got four minutes that don't have great bedside manner, you know, and you leave there and you're like, “Check, I did it.” But you don't feel great. You're like, “Could I have done this differently? I still have some questions.” Over time, you change doctors. The same is true for financial professionals.
If you feel like you're being rushed, you're not getting communicated the way that you want to, you are allowed to change advisors. I'm gonna repeat that, sorry, but I'm gonna let people know.
Genevieve George: No, it's fine. Maybe they'll come to me.
Erika Wasserman: Right, that's exactly it. And all of a sudden, the people that you have staying with you are your refer-bases. Because they're gonna be like, “I sit with Genevieve forever and she doesn't make any questions seem silly. And I don't feel rushed and I can call her a second time.” And those are the feelings that you wanna get when you meet the right person.
So when you're looking for a financial advisor, I recommend interviewing two or three. Don't just go with the person that your uncle uses or that was my parents guy because it might not be the right fit for you.
Genevieve George: Yeah, and you should be in a relationship where you can be like, I try to tell people I'm like, “I want you to be brave with your questions. I want you to tell somebody if you don't understand.” But honestly, you shouldn't have to be brave. You should just be able to like, just rattle off your questions and not with no shame and no fear. It's okay if you don't know whatever you're asking.
Erika Wasserman: You know what the reality is? Most people don't know what questions to ask. They really don't. And so that's why I created ‘Let's Talk Finances,’ the conversation cards.
Genevieve George: Yes, I saw those, those are great.
Erika Wasserman: Yes, because people kept coming to me saying, I don't know a question to ask or I couldn't ask that question. You know, one of them was like, how many credit cards do you have? Are you happy with that number? A lot of people don't know.
Genevieve George: And these are questions to ask each other in a relationship or to be having with your professionals, right?
Erika Wasserman: Yes, absolutely. And so, and other ones are like, do you believe we should support adult parents or adult family members, I say, right? Because, you know, why is it important to you? These are really big conversations that later in life can come back if you don't understand each other's values and reasons.
And so taking the time to build financial intimacy, not just with your financial professional, but with your partner is important as well. And with your parents, as I'm in the sandwich generation right now. Yep. And it's really important for me to understand my mom's financial situation and for her to understand mine and my kids to understand mine, right?
And so it's a generational conversation that we're having at different ages and different stages, but it removes the guessing.
Genevieve George: Yeah, the more clarity, the better, right? Now you have a better understanding of what your mom's wishes are and how we're going to pay for them. And she understands what maybe I'm not putting words in your mouth, but in my own life, right? What my limitations are. I can't just stop working.
Erika Wasserman: I choose to stop not working because I want to support family this way, right?
Because you're choosing to do these things. And oftentimes, and I see it right now, it's really prevalent is helping family and setting boundaries around family members. And what I keep coming back to is the question is, what is your need and what is your want?
So family could come to you and say, “I need $10,000.” OK, what's the need part of it? And what's the want part of it? The want might be, “I need somebody to check in on me or make dinners because I'm not capable anymore. They're looking for an aid.”
That's the need. And how can we service that need?
It might be my sister going by, it might be the neighbors stopping in, it might be delivery dudes, right? You have to also kind of brainstorm what the thing is where it's not just always cash.
Genevieve George: I love the conversation cards and in the book you address having these conversations. And I think that it is easily put on the back burner, right? Life is busy. So you address that. You tell people to structure time for this, whether you're doing it independently or you're doing it with a partner. Can you talk to that about what that adds to the financial intimacy?
Erika Wasserman: Yes, so here's my favorite question right now. Does every financial conversation lead to a fight? Are we not having financial conversations enough that resentment is building that it turns into a fight? Right? It's like the chicken or the egg.
And so what I've noticed in a lot of things, right, is smaller conversations help you, one, build stamina around these conversations, skillset, understanding. And so when the bigger decisions come, like a new roof when it's raining in my kid's room, right, you're able to have them better because you've taken the time to do the money and honey conversations.
However you need to do it, it's making the time. And it could be something small like going for a walk, grab a card, start a question, ask on your phone. You know what I mean? Like start the dialogue when you're driving.
“What's your plans this month? What do we have going on financially? Summer's coming up and summer camp, like what are our plans to shift in spending?”
Notice I didn't say like budget, because budget to me is like diet, right? It's constrained. What are we gonna shift? Because our money's a circle, right? It's a pie graph. So things, we can move the wheel, but we have, but it's all in the wheel.
And so what are we gonna shift for this? And when you start having those open dialogues, it gets easier over time. So don't put off the conversation and don't throw everything into one conversation.
Genevieve George: Well, and that's why the cards are a nice prompt, right? Or there was a chapter in your book where you said somebody pre-scheduled by topic, right? Like month and month.
Erika Wasserman: Yep, every month was for the year, they had different topics. Yep.
Genevieve George: That's right. And I love that because that's not taking the pressure of saying, “Okay, we're going to have this financial conversation and we're going to cover everything soup to nuts.” Like, I mean, because that will a hundred percent be in a fight, right? In my house, just because we're trying to handle too much.
Erika Wasserman: It is. And it shows up where, “Your mother, we gave your brother…” Who knows? And all of a sudden nothing gets solved.
Genevieve George: But if you can focus it to the shift for the summer childcare plan or…
Erika Wasserman: Yep, taxes, holiday season, back to school shopping, there's always something going on. But that's also why I created the Money Mindset Method. So it's a five-step approach using the word money.
The first is M: make the conversation comfortable.
Is that on a walk, in the car? Think about when you have had a good conversation. Could be with your romantic partner. It could also be with your boss.
Don't have the conversation at three o'clock when you know she leaves to go pick up the kids at 3.15. Because you just want the conversation over with. So make the conversation comfortable. That includes temperature, tone of voice, all of those things.
O: one question at a time.
This is the important one. Write it down if you need to. Put a picture of the house that you're trying to buy, the wedding you want. And as you start having conversations, go left and right, point back to where you're going. Stay focused.
The N is nurtured shared goal. You probably don't have the same reason why that goal is important to you.
But you both need to have buy-in. If it's two or three people, four people, whoever in the conversation, everybody needs buy-in to make it a win.
E, this is my fun one, evaluate practical solutions. This is where you just get to brainstorm ideas. How can we do it differently? How can we do it the same? What's working? And see what you come up with, each individually, and then source it as a group.
And last is Y for compassion. Say yes to compassion. I'm working with a client last year who fiance would get up midway through a conversation, just go into the kitchen. Years ago, it used to bother her.
Now she knows he just needs to go wash a dish, get a glass of water. That's his anxiety showing up that he needs a minute. He comes back to the couch. Years ago, that would have created a fight, but now it's that compassion piece. So it's learning who you're with and having compassion for them and for yourself. And then rinse and repeat every time you have a financial decision.
Genevieve George: Yeah, I love that. Now, let's say somebody is listening to this and they're thinking, "Wow, like I might have an unhealthy relationship with money. I'm not sure what to do with that.” What is your guidance to them on where to start? Whether the individual level or the couple or work or whatever.
Erika Wasserman: Awareness is the first step. So my flow for financial therapy, the first piece is awareness. The second is assessment. The third is action. And the fourth is reassessment, right? And then we go through it again because assessment is like, what's going on? Why is it showing up? How is it showing up?
And then when you're ready, that's awareness, assessments of how and where it's showing up, and then actions, what needs to shift. Are these things that you can shift on your own? Do you have capabilities? Do you have auto transfers? Do you have the voice? Or do you need to get some help?
And if that's the book or the cards or speaking with a professional, financial therapist or meeting with a financial planner, hiring a new accountant, there's so many resources that are out there to take that next step. And that's, I guess, what I would like to encourage you is take that next step. Because remember, whatever you're doing right now, you're getting better at.
Genevieve George: Yeah, progress. Not perfection. It doesn't have to be perfection.
Erika Wasserman: Well, if you're ignoring it, if you're ignoring it, right? Or if you're not investing, you're getting better at not investing.
Genevieve George: Right, that's right. Yes, yes, at spending the tax return.
Erika Wasserman: Your tax return came back and you didn't take action. Well, guess what? You're not going to get results.
Genevieve George: Yeah, yeah. But I think one of the things that sometimes holds people back is that they're not where they should be to their mind, right? They're not where they should be or it's not perfect, right? And so a lot of what I talk about is we're just trying to make progress. What is the next step? It doesn't need to be perfect. Nobody's perfect. How do we keep moving forward?
To your point, like not taking that action or just continuing to do the things the way we've been doing it is not helping you make progress forward.
Erika Wasserman: And let's flip that here for a second. Everybody thinks that it has to be perfect. I was working with a doctor, afraid to make financial mistakes because in her business you don't make mistakes. And I said, have you ever left the lid off a jar? Well, yeah. I'm like, that's a mistake. Professional athletes,
If they rewatch film, why do they watch film all the time? Because mistakes get made all the time. But they still go out there and do the best. It's never perfection from start to finish. It's knowing where you need help. So don't wait for perfection because you'll never get started.
Genevieve George: Right. And I think that applies in a lot of places, not just in our financial life, but that's what we're focusing on here.
Erika Wasserman: What I'm hearing you say is, “Erika, go to the gym.”
Genevieve George: No, not at all. I think I take it back to like marketing. I'm like, “Man, that post isn't perfect.” I'm just going to not, and then it just never happens. And I'm like, cool. That was like, not getting it. You have to just be okay with getting stuff out there, right?
Erika Wasserman: Be vulnerable. I guess that's the answer. We're all vulnerable in different ways.
Genevieve George: And find a partner, a friend, a professional that you can do that with, right? Because that will help you make that progress.
Erika Wasserman: And then when you find one, it'll be interesting. It leads to two, and then it leads to three. And your confidence starts building. And people start coming to you later on. It's really magical to see.
Genevieve George: Yeah, I love that.
Now, your work intersects a lot with financial professionals as well. So what do you wish that other planners and advisors were doing with their clients?
Erika Wasserman: Understanding that their clients think differently. I'll give you a great example. Most planners, I call “how people.” So there's “how” and “wow.” How are we gonna get this done? How do we wanna do this? Give me the pen and paper, right? I'm ready to go. How, what, how?
And then you have the “wow people.” When you ask, "What are you gonna do for retirement?” “Wow!” And you see the whole body language.
“We're gonna go on the cruise, the grandkids are coming on vacation. I'm buying a house in Hawaii.” And then oftentimes, not always, they're married. “How are we getting to Hawaii? And what are the taxes?”
As an advisor, it’s really important because that dreamer, that wow person needs the advisor to jump in with them for a little bit and not pop their balloon right away. So how you prepare for a meeting for a wow client might be with more of a graphs and pictures and storytelling. And your how client, when they come in, they're going want to see that bottom line and the percentages and three steps to get the account set up, right?
And they're easier to work with for most planners because they reflect how they do business. So as an advisor, when you sit down with somebody, is see, are they a how or a wow? And if they're more of a wow, ask them, when was the last time you were successful in completing a project? How was that managed?
Right? How can we get the paperwork put in on time without me annoying you or you pulling back? How can I support you through that process? And I think that's really important is adjusting to the client sitting across the table.
Genevieve George: Yeah, meet them where they're at, whether they're how or wow or wherever in between.
Erika Wasserman: Yep, they're a combination of both. Yep.
Genevieve George: Yes. Yeah, I love that. Can you please tell us how people can find you and read your phenomenal book?
Erika Wasserman: Yes, thank you. So you could find me at Your Financial Therapist. It's the website, it's my Instagram, LinkedIn, across the board.
And I was lucky enough to write the book, ‘Conversations with Your Financial Therapist: Stories and Scripts’ to have a productive conversation around money. Scripts are actually in the back so you could see how conversations could look like. I felt like that was missing. Most people came to me to say, “I don't even know what it looks like. I've never had one.”
And the thing is I got endorsed by Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran. I was speaking on stage with her last year in Dallas and she said, “Whatever I can do to help you.” This is an important conversation.
Genevieve George: That's amazing. And I really enjoyed it so much because I've read my fair share of financial books, right? You wrote it in a way that is, you were telling a story and I think it is so relatable and you can really, there's a couple different characters in the book and so you can really sort of resonate with different people at different stages in your life. And I thought it was so powerful. So a phenomenal job. I'm so excited.
For all of your readers and for the people that you work with, how do people work with you?
Erika Wasserman: Yes, so I have a limited space available for private clients. I work with generally two different programs. One's one month in duration, one-on-one customized, and one is an annual agreement that we work together unlimited. so depending on where you are in your work and space availability for mine is where we put each other. Otherwise, you have access online with products and services. And then I do speaking. Any corporation, association. I do workshops and keynotes.
Genevieve George: Yeah, that's wonderful. And do you have any final thoughts on what you'd like your listeners to leave with today?
Erika Wasserman: Yes, so my goal in 2026 is to spark 2026 conversations. So I hope today has created an opportunity for you to spark a conversation to help me meet my goal. So if you do, let us know what conversation was sparked and if we can help you anyway in those conversations, I'll speak for myself and for you. I'm sure we'd love to help you with that.
Genevieve George: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Erika. I mean, I could just talk to you all day. This was so enjoyable. And I just feel like you're doing such phenomenal work, helping people get through, get their confidence back around their money and get through some of the stories that we put on ourselves. And I'm so excited for everybody that gets to hear from you.
Erika Wasserman: Thank you for having me on. I look forward to more conversations.
That's it for today's episode of The Wealth Development Studio. Remember, financial clarity is powerful. Do you need help with your financial plan? Go to pelicanfinancialplanning.com to schedule a call with me. Until next time.
